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Scots in Auburn
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DaveFerro
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:06 am    Post subject: Scots in Auburn Reply with quote

Joe O'Hearn publishes a history newsletter and this month there is a story about Auburn Woolen Mill on the Owasco River. Water power is one reason many industries located here.


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article on page 9.

Samuel Laurie came from Scotland to manage the mill, which was down the hill from Owasco Street. The bell tower seems to have been fashioned after some Italian buildings - wish that was still there.

The home that Laurie built in the shape of a Scottish castle, however, still stands and draws attention to it's dark red walls and castle towers.

There are photos of a store downtown that had mannequins wearing ladies and gents kilts. Seems Mr. Laurie wanted to bring his home country to America.

Many farmers raised sheep to supply the factory with material. As with many companies here, competition drove them out of business.

Two carpet factories were also powered by falls on the river. Recently, Joe had articles about them and again, a Scot was brought in to manage one of them. Our relatives worked in most of these factories, especially the Columbian Rope (I worked there one summer), Dunn & McCarthy Shoes (Enna Jettick), ALCO (American Locomotive), Firth Carpet, Nye-Wait Carpets - all are gone now.

The ALCO factory here started out in 1899 as McIntosh & Seymour - so another Scot...

Dave

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Emmy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave maybe I shoould get back into a kilt and come over and visit that place?
Bet that would cause a bit of a stir Dancing

I guess everyone who moved to another country would always have the compulsion to make it a look likde a little bit of the home they had left.
Emmy

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DaveFerro
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emmy,

Today would have been a good day for kilts - 60F and sunny...bit of a breeze though. Mutande-less! Yes no need for thermal underwear or even a sweater. Did wear the green one to the library, just in case.

I can see it now - would you bring pipes? There are entire battalions of bagpipes that march in parades just in this state.

Yes, but look at how some immigrants brought their homeland over: Little Italy, Spanish Harlem, Chinatown. Practically moved their villages to the neighborhood. Many corner grocery stores still visible around town. My mother remembers them.

Did the pages at the web site come out clear? Some were blurred for me but this is an older computer and out of date browser, etc.

I'll try to find the photo of that store somewhere.

The cats show their affection, brushing against my legs, rubbing their heads on my chin when holding them. They know I'm trying to help.

By the way, a poster at Abruzzo Heritage said that FamilySearch.org now has browsing of documents from other countries on their new home web page. This did not work on this browser - might be too old or I have one of my extensions blocking somehow.

On the lower left is a list of continents which link to countries and then a search section. There is a graphic in front of some of the continent list that obscures the one for Europe. Clicking on any of the visible ones has no effect. Anyway it worked at the library and I searched for ancestors a bit. These are microfilm scans that are just being put on - they don't have much yet, but it would be easier than going to a center to copy microfilms.

Everyone probably knows all about this, but I'm behind in news.

This is her post:
The LDS Library are now indexing the films and putting this information on line for free. They are also putting films on line where you must browse through the records to find the image of birth, marriage or death. Go to
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then in the lower left hand corner click on Europe then in the left hand side click on Italy. Then you can click on the birth record. I find it best to put in the first and last name of the relative and the place of residence only. If you get no records found do it again with just the last name. Remember they have just started this and many of the towns have yet to be indexed. You can also try the records with the camera next to them. Click on a the birth record then when the next screen comes up click on browse the images next appears all the providences they are working on. Click on Teramo and up comes all the towns in the Teramo Providence. Click on your town and search through the records. They are looking for people to help with the indexing maybe some of our Italian friends in Italy will help.


Dave

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Gil
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emmy, If you head to New York in a kilt, let me know as we will be there camera in hand!

Dave, Thanks for posting. The pictures came out beautiful. They were sharp and clear like the typing on here.

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DaveFerro
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have been contemplating Emmy with kilt and bagpipes going down Genesee Street, turning on Owasco Street to the Laurie Castle. Imagine the townsfolk - though if on St. Patrick's Day they might not be too surprised.

Lately reading about HMS Queen Elizabeth while on troop transport during WWII - built at John J. Brown & Co. Clydebank, it steamed secretly to NYC at the start of the war, work to finish her done at NY and other stops in Singapore and Sydney. Great photos and stories in this book. Much credit must be given to her captains, crew and builders. Did not need escort, as her speed outdistanced U-Boats,up to 30 knots or more.

The number of troops carried was more than 4 times her maximum civilian passengers - during summer, 16,000 but 12,000 during the winter months for stability sake. That is more than a division of soldiers.

*************************************************************
Just wanted to add the incredible ability of the captains on the Queen Elizabeth - as the ship used fuel and water, not to mention food supplies for so many passengers, the center of gravity would shift upwards, making it less stable in high seas. The captain had to account for this and the movement of the soldier even to go to meals (in sections).

The incident with the soldiers making the ship list in NY harbor was not the first - previously a ship with some nurses was passing by and there was an immediate shift to that side of the ship.

You can imagine that a lot of food was needed for the five day trip and some of what was not used ended up in Great Britain where there was a shortage. Usually through portholes etc.

One note: chickens on board supplied 30,000 eggs a day for meals. They did not have any photos of that operation.

*************************************************************

My Uncle Sam Bissi told me he came back from Europe on the Queen Elizabeth but only officers were allowed on deck when entering NY harbor. I thought this was another example of mistreatment of the soldiers, but on one earlier trip with airmen (the photos of the packed decks makes you wonder...), so many moved to the port side that the ship started to list.

Have to ask where he boarded, as Gourock, Scotland was the ship's embarkation point. Did not know that the ship was so big that there were only two times a year with two tides in 24 hours that high enough to get it out of the Clyde basin into open sea.

Wonder if any other relatives, like my Dad Nick (I have his itinerary to Le Havre on another ship) or my Father Mario to the South Pacific. I know Mario was in New Guinea and the Philippines, since I have his diary. Nick was in Europe and the Pacific ending up in Hiroshima.

Other book is about planes during WWII - one librarian's father was a waist gunner on a B24 - I think she said he was on 40 missions. One of his sons put all his notes and diary on the Internet. My uncle Al Ferro trained in the Texas heat as a ball turret gunner and ended up in the Aleutians. Mario was based not far away in Arkansas.

Got a book about Iroquois Teachings, one on Italian, and a new one about the artist who began much of the Manga comics and films.

Still no Xeno - other cats goofy.

Dave

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Gil
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My father was stateside, but my godfather was in the Battle of the Bulge. My mother's brother was a navigator on one of the planes that liberated Berlin. It has been so long since I've heard the war stories that I've forgot most of them. I do remember my uncles telling us about how willing the girls in Europe were to entertain America GIs!!!

Very Happy

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I do remember my uncles telling us about how willing the girls in Europe were to entertain America GIs!!!

I believe chocloate and nylon stockings had a lot to do with the above quote Dancing Dancing but sadly I cant confirm this I was too too young at that time to think about nylons! Whistle Whistle

Re me and my kilt I'll need to find some matching tartan to insert some(quite a lot actually) more pleats before I would be able to wear it. d'oh! When my children were all young I made kilts for the four of them. As my mother was Scottish I have the right to wear the tartan with her surname, and when my grandson got his full highland outfit for his 21st birthday he had it made up in that tartan. The tartans I really like are the Blackwatch tartan and the Royal Stuart tartan.

Guess I'd need a bit more'puff' before I could try the bagpipes though Think
Emmy Dancing [/quote]

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a number of sites that host the stories of soldiers that they themselves submit as will as from relatives. One poster calls herself "Proud Daughter" at a site for combat engineers - with sections for other units.

Several men from here were combat engineers and first off at Omaha beach. Many did not return and there was a post by one of them which explained what happened.

What unit was your godfather in, Gil? My Uncle Sam happened to get a leave to the U.S. during the Bulge - three were chosen from each outfit, but one got sick and Sam took his place. Lucky for him because of all the casualties - even Don Burgett of the 506 Paratrooper Regiment said that the 327th had been strafed and bombed every day since the weather cleared by their own planes. They kept putting out the markers, but...

One relative of a soldier killed there has been communicating with me because my uncle was in the same company and remembers him. We've been trying to figure out just what happened and exactly where. This soldier received a bronze star - or his wife did.

It is important to get all these stories down - luckily my cousin found my father's diary from the Philippines and we have lots of photos and paper from my dad, Nick. He did not speak much of it, except to say war was a bad thing. He was 30 when drafted and drove an ambulance.

My father Mario turned 26 over there and was a cook for a tank battalion. Some firing, mortars and snipers, but only went to the front (100 to 300 yards away) once and "didn't like it one bit, and came right back." One quote always gets me: "Nothing much happened today, just some snipers. Nobody got hurt much."

Some of the books I have read do cover relations between civilians and soldiers. In one way you can't blame the women, with little food and few men around - but as one tank sergeant in the 4th Armored (my Uncle Armand's division) said, there were more German women than French that he got to know. But he also emphasized that it was voluntary - to the degree under the circumstances - and some men were shot for rape and murder and "they deserved it". I have noticed that we don't punish some soldiers very much for the same thing, even against our own female soldiers.

He also said that if you were lucky you might even get a Purple Heart - "we used to call that the German Marksmanship medal." And when you think about it...

I didn't know about the kilts, Emmy, as far as who it transferred to. I guess it makes sense. Also think I know which patterns you are talking about and they are beautiful.

Have any photos of yourself and kids in their kilts? Did your husband have one too? Or as you say, your mother was the Scot.

Dave

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Gil
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't know all of the war details as we mostly saw relatives on holidays. My godfather and other uncles only told stories about having to have wine in their canteens as you couldn't trust the water and stories on how the hot English women and how thankful the Italian and French women were for being liberated. A year or two after my uncle passed away his war baby from England called me thinking I was her dad. She called me one morning and later in the year visited the USA to see an old college friend in Pennsylvania and me and my family.

All of my family lived in the city (NYC) except for my parents and my brother and our two sisters. Relatives visited for the holidays and when my grandparents were still alive we probably went to the Bronx or Queens once a month. Sorry I don't have all of the details.

My wife and daughter just got the ancestry bug and are working on my mother's side of the family. They are searching records in the hills of Sicily....

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave I just couldnt imagine my late husband wearing a kilt. Even at our son's wedding when the majority of the guests were wearing kilts he said no way was he wearing a kilt and wore a suit as planned. (he had nothing against the highland outfit guess he thought he didnt have the build to show it off Very Happy ) When I get time I'll have a look through my photographs I'm sure I did post a photograph of my grandson in his outfit. He actually wore his complete highland outfit when he graduated last year.
I'm a bit apprehensive about posting photographs on the forum now since I found out that they are available for the 'world' to see and re imageshack I think Simy told Gil and me that the only way you can delete photographs you send through imagesahck is if you register with them first, and I wont post any photographs of the family etc without first asking them if it's ok to do so. Isnt it horrible when you have to think like that!

Gil if i did come to NewYork wearing my kilt was it ME you wanted to photograph or the KILT?? Silenced Think

Emmy Very Happy Very Happy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gil,

Too bad you couldn't get their stories - we used to watch the war documentaries narrated by Walter Cronkite (who parachuted in with the troops) and our fathers and uncles said a bit about it all, but not much. Uncle Chuck was on a escort destroyer and usually told me some point of view that I never thought of - that was when I was older. Disney was also in the mix after Sunday dinner, plus the games the men would watch. This was at Grandma's house (where we lived) so there were lots of kids running around.

Also sorry to hear that your uncle's daughter did not get to see him. That is very important for any child. Are you certain that the wine HAD to be used or a good excuse to have that? A lot of the water would have been contaminated though.

Don Burgett did say that of all the supplies dropped at Bastogne, water was the most lacking. He said that in Holland, they dropped lots of plastic packs of water. It took a lot of snow to melt down in a helmet to a canteen's worth. Maybe they thought the soldiers could easily do that.

Still trying to imagine being in a foxhole in winter overnight.

Actually, Emmy, I do recall seeing a photo of an event with many kilts that you posted. I understand your reluctance about posting family photos. I went back to the ones I posted of Missy and some were gone. Perhaps because of the time limit at that hosting site.

I think we would like to see the expressions on people's faces when anyone went by with a kilt on.

Dave

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Still trying to imagine being in a foxhole in winter overnight.

I heard that you could dispose of liquids via your helmet and you had to wait till you got out to dispose of anything else!

I probably hear stories at the dinner table, but it has been so long ago. Also, my brother and I were too busy bothering our younger sisters and cousins.

My father had a cousin that lived in Naples and on one of our trips we visited him. He insisted that he take us to Monte Cassino because he took my parents there and they loved it. When I got home and went back to work I was telling some people about the trip and when I got to Monte Cassino a young Polish kid took over and told the story of Monte Cassino. I asked him how he knew and he said every Polish kid in New Britain heard the story from their fathers and uncles at the holiday dinner table holiday after holiday!

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DaveFerro
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gil,

Don Burgett comes closest to telling what it was like to fight in that weather. As you say, there were all kinds of problems that the soldiers had made ingenious solutions to. One had built a very nice covered trench with soft pine boughs and which was blown up just before Burgett got to use it.

A small fire, just enough to fit in your two hands, was used in some foxholes - practically smokeless, but they had to keep an eye on it. He describes how they walked away for a minute and a thin wisp went up - followed by a German mortar in a direct hit. They had the time to range in many targets.

The Poles made many attacks on Cassino after failed ones by other units - and finally getting through but at great cost. No wonder all Poles would hear the story. Would you be able to get this story down?

Also I forgot to ask what part of Sicily was your mother's family from. My maternal grandfather was from Siculiana which is near Agrigento. Our PBS station had a travelogue of Italy and Sicily taken from a helicopter and we were surprised when the caption said Siculiana - beautiful! They were having a festival with rides in the square and a parade forming outside the village. I taped it and show it to relatives whenever they come over. One other friend from that town (who remembers the Bissi farm) ordered the full tape.

We seem to have gotten away from kilts - but then there are the soldiers who fought in them.

Dave

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

I don't know if I could get the story from the Polish guy I used to work with as I retired in May, 2003 and I think that he must of retired by now too. I remember him mentioned about hearing about all of the sacrifices made by the Poles at Cassino.

My grandfather's family was from Coltabalotta, although his mother was from Ribera. My grandmother's family was from Bisaquino. I'll have to get the correct spellings of these towns when my wife is up.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just thought it would be a good idea to put their story down on paper. Anyway, one of my books says that it was the Polish II Corps, two divisions and a brigade under Lieut. General Wladyslaw Anders. This books says that many of these fighters had lost families and their country to the Germans and fought for revenge and honor. They "probed the German defenses, taking heavy casualties."

The British had advanced enough into the Liri Valley after 6 days of fighting to outflank the Germans...That night Germans withdrew from both positions."
This is after the monastery had been bombed and the Indians, New Zealanders and Americans had tried to break the lines. The French with the Moroccans and Algerians had pushed through in the mountains - the area where Emmy's family was from. This was in May, 1944 - the Poles lost nearly 4,000 soldiers. Not much was left of Cassino or the monastery.

A quick check shows that Ribera and Caltabellotta are in Agrigento province; these provinces are large so these might be closer to other provinces than to the city of Agrigento - checking some more...

Ribera is 44 Km. distant from Agrigento, 115 Km from Palermo.

Yep, Caltabellotta is 60 km south of Palermo and about 45 km northwest of Agrigento.

All beautiful photos of beautiful places. Have you been there? Naturally, the Sicilians have their own names for the communes: Rivela and Cataviddotta - identified with the ancient town of the Sicani Triocala. Lots of mixture of peoples in our Sicilian ancestors.

Frank Capra was from Bisaquino, leaving there when he was five - his brother Ben had gone to America the long way around, not coming back with the sheep one day at age 15. His mother must have been very worried. His autobiography tells the whole story which is amazing in all aspects.

It snowed all day and will be down to 19F tonight. Got some toe warmers (75% off only 25 cents for two) to keep my poor Snip and Slug warm. Lots of shoveling to do later when I bring the trash and cardboard out.

Dave

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