AMICI OVER THE OCEAN
 
 
     
Welcome!
Welcome to Amici Over the Ocean forum!

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out our Terms of Service and Advices
PLEASE NOTE: Some areas are not accessible or are hidden to guests.
Please log in or register to enjoy the entire site!
Registration is quick and easy!

CLICK HERE TO REGISTER - CLICK HERE TO LOG IN

Hello, looking for relatives and friends: Ferro, David
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    AMICI OVER THE OCEAN Forum Index -> New Members - Welcome! Benvenuti!
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
maria
Addicted to this place
Addicted to this place


Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 532
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,
it is gelso, not celso, of course... a mental slip......

Yes, we like our orange salad a lot, but my father often comments how expensive it is to make in this country while in Sicily is dirt cheap, even if you don't grow an orange tree and need to buy oranges in the store....sometimes we mix very thinly sliced fennel with the oranges (in this case we also add a little of vinegar)... or sometimes we just have fennel salad and no oranges...All versions very good... We don't call the salad "Insalata del Morte"... just insalata di arance... orange salad. All my friends in US love it when I serve it to them, in every version I make it. One of them wanted me to bring it for the 4th of July cookout and I had a hard time explaining that it is a 'winter' salad... not when oranges are out of season and taste stale! What is the point of that?

Oh, the calamari salad is so good! I had the best one in my life in Naples in 1974, no offense to both my grandmothers

Maria

_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T. S. Eliot
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DaveFerro
Site Regular
Site Regular


Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 470
Location: Auburn, New York

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Maria,

Glad you cleared that up, so now it fits in and there is not still another name. That means that the name came from my Granpa Bissi. Strange how I have to trace genealogy by food prep.

My mother says it was called Insalata del Morte because the dish was brought to the wakes at the deceased home...before funeral homes were popular, and affordable. From now on I will call it insalata di arance.

I had seen that in one of the books but couldn't recall the name.

We don't have anguille anymore, as it is too expensive. I read that 80% is now imported from China and that the places where they raise them are polluted.

Even calamari is getting to be too high. How do you prepare it, with sauce or fried? I believe the fried is the Sicilian way.

Years ago, I was watching an ad for a local restaurant that listed something called bracciale. I thought, what is that "brac..ci..ole? Brah-Zhall??! To the dicitionary-> it means armlet! Yeah, that's what it looks like. So now I know how to spell it finally, only 60 years later.

But there is another question. Whlle watching the Travel Channel, a family in Italy showed how they made bracciale: just like us, except with hard boiled eggs, which we never heard of. Asking my cousin Stan, we found that his mother made it that way and his Polish father loved it. My aunt got it from her mother (my granma Bissi) and my (foster) mother learned it from her mother, Granma Nervina, who is the sister of granma Bissi. So why did the different ways not be passed on? Or even hear about it?


All this should be in the food topic and I'm going to post there later.

Thanks

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
goganga
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 3172
Location: Northern Italy

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveFerro wrote:
Years ago, I was watching an ad for a local restaurant that listed something called bracciale. I thought, what is that "brac..ci..ole? Brah-Zhall??! To the dicitionary-> it means armlet! Yeah, that's what it looks like. So now I know how to spell it finally, only 60 years later.

Perhaps you mean the steak of pork or of calf? If it's so, it's called "braciola", while the "bracciale" is the armlet.
Usually we cook the braciola with a bit of olive oil, white wine, rosemary and two pieces of garlic. Smile

_________________
how I long to see the sun in a sky of perfect blue,
with the sunlight on my face, but there's nothing I can do...
.I.



Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!



Di troppe cose non so cosa farne, per me che avrei bisogno di poche immagini ma eterne. (G. Gaber)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
DaveFerro
Site Regular
Site Regular


Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 470
Location: Auburn, New York

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I tried to remember the spelling but it was awhile ago and the dictionary was far away. What I was talking about was thin flank steak, sometimes pork, that my mother (and g-mother) would tenderize, flatten and then put a mixture of breadcrumbs and egg, grated cheese with basil, oregano etc then rolled up, tied or with toothpicks and put in the tomato sauce. We never used hard boiled eggs, but my aunt did and I guess she got it from my Sicilian grandfather. The Folklore book says the Sicilian name is brusciuluna.

I might have gotten the names all wrong and will have to look it up. The rolled up pieces do look like armlets and I am curious about the how the names came about. A friend had a poster of pasta that had pictures of each kind and the names. Another TV show said that many names make sport of priests and nuns, the church, etc. Ever heard of that.

What about your area? Much seafood I suppose. When I lived in the SF Bay Area I asked one of our housemates, a cook who also worked for a fish wholesaler, why seafood there was so expensive. He said that's because we save the best for the local people and ship the rest to other parts of the country. Somehow I did not believe him.

Dave

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
maria
Addicted to this place
Addicted to this place


Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 532
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,
cooking is not set on stone. Many Sicilian cooks put the hard boiled egg inside the bruciolune or brusciuluna (depending what side of the island you come from) and many do not. I have stopped putting hard boiled egg in it and toward the end so did my mother although my grandmother did. The other grandmother although also Sicilian never made the recipe (as far as I remember...could remember wrong). One grew up more in the country and the other one closer to Palermo and their cooking was very different in style although maybe they were separated by 10 miles or so.

In addition to cooking brusciuluna inside tomato sauce you could cook it inside a 'onion soup' type broth. When done this way you call it glassata...glazed. I prefer the second method and seldom cook them in tomato sauce. You could also add peas in either the tomato sauce or the glazed onion sauce. You could serve the latter sauce also on pasta garnished with grated cheese and chopped parsely.

Quote:
Another TV show said that many names make sport of priests and nuns, the church, etc. Ever heard of that.


Very Happy Yes....also Mother Mary....

"braciola' comes from 'brace' which in Italian means grill.

Maria

_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T. S. Eliot
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DaveFerro
Site Regular
Site Regular


Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 470
Location: Auburn, New York

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maria,

Yes, you are right about recipes not being in stone. Our neighbors want to know some of her recipes, but all I can tell them is that you get some of this and some of that, depending on several things. You know.

Those are some interesting ways to cook and I will show them to my mother so we can try them. You said there is a difference over a few miles; in our family, there were differences between cousins just across the street. The reason was one had a Sicilian father and the other from Compobasso, like the two sisters. My grandfather always asked them "Are you sure you are sisters? You're so different from one another." His wife never worked out of the house, and her sister worked in many factories in the area.

I'm thinking of the food again. Too late to cook anything now. My uncle Sammy told me about something his mother made (my granma Bissi) which sounded like this: Coo di Roo nah" which he said was like a calzone.
We had been talking about a filled pizza that is covered with dough like a pie. One book called it pizza a chiene - filled or "money" pie. We used to have a simple one with sliced potatos alternating with ground beef and onions peppers, cheese and spices. I'm trying to talk my mother into making it again, with my cousin Stan and I helping so we can learn how.

The one in the book had "salametti, prociutto, sliced boiled eggs, and several varieties of cheese." I don't remember this, but she said her mother made it for Christmas.

I have read that the Carthagineans settled Palermo, so I wonder how much the food was influenced. I also saw a festival on the Travel Channel where girls were dressed like angels and were suspended by lines from buildings in Palermo. It was amazing and beautiful . Something similar was mentioned in the Folklore book about a feste in the U.S.

Braciola comes from grilled? Now I have to learn remember that and figure out how I got the other definition.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
maria
Addicted to this place
Addicted to this place


Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 532
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Braciola comes from grilled? Now I have to learn remember that and figure out how I got the other definition.


You know, it is both, as the two sound alike...

Braccio -arm

Actually, I looked ut the definition for brace and it is not really grill, but cinders, ambers, so it could be used to braise something...so the two words maybe were combined...to make 'little arms on ambers'

It was not the Carthegians who founded Palermo but the Phoecians (from Lebanon) who also founded Carthage. Later as the power shifted from the Phoenicians in Lebanon to the Phoenicians in Carthage, Palermo being closer geographically became controlled from Carthage.

About styles of cooking, I know what you are saying. When people ask me if I cook a traditional recipes I tell that the tradition in my family is that every woman develop her own style. So, my mother and my aunt changed family recipes somewhat and so have I.... and there are difference in cooking within Sicily. Around the Palermo area our cooking has more 'Arabic' (North Africa-Middle Eastern) influence while in other parts of Sicily they have more 'Greek' as they were settled by the Greek, but that was 3000 years ago. We also have big Spanish influence and French in the cooking and of course we are all Italians so the basic theme is Italian of course...bottom line though, once I was invited for dinner by a Sicilian family from the other side of the island (Siracusa area) and they proudly offered me something Sicilian thinking that I missed my mother's cooking, but my mother had never made it. I have now discovered that it is a specialty of their area.

Anyway, more later...

It is my day off from work and the garden is calling me.

Maria

_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T. S. Eliot
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maria
Addicted to this place
Addicted to this place


Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 532
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgot

Quote:
"Something his mother made (my granma Bissi) which sounded like this: Coo di Roo nah" which he said was like a calzone.
We had been talking about a filled pizza that is covered with dough like a pie. One book called it pizza a chiene - filled or "money" pie. We used to have a simple one with sliced potatos alternating with ground beef and onions peppers, cheese and spices. I'm trying to talk my mother into making it again, with my cousin Stan and I helping so we can learn how. "


I have seen this done and they are very good. In my family we make something like a shepard pie, no crust... mashed potatoes (with milk, egg, butter) layered with ground beef, peppers, etc.. Alternatively we use rice instead... We called them gatto'...obviously from the French gateau (cake), but in Italian this style of cooking is called timballo.

In the Palermo area where I grew up calzones are small fried pot pies. You find them in fast food places (tavola calda....literally hot table)

My grandmother also made closed pizza, but it never rose to the status of 'recipe'... if she was raising dough for bread and the kids were hungry, she would take some of the rising dough, flatten it very fast, put some cheese and tomatoes or tomato sauce, some pieces of salame or ham and then bake it very fast... we did not even have a name for it....

Maria

_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T. S. Eliot
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DaveFerro
Site Regular
Site Regular


Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 470
Location: Auburn, New York

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maria,

I'm going to have to go back to my history books. I thought that Carthage was established first (the legendary Queen Dido - would like to know more about her) and then they set out colonies in Sicily and Spain and other places. For a long time I did not know why the Romans called the conflicts the Punic Wars, then I read that the Roman name for the Carthaginians was Phoenikes according to the encyclopedia (where did that k come from) and the inhabitants called Poeni. It also says that the Phoencian name was KART-HADASHT, meaning "new town."Interesting that Neapolis also means "new town." Really shows the source as from their homeland on the coast of modern Lebanon. The book says their alphabet may be the source of the Greek, Anyway they were amazing sailors, some books saying that they circumnavigated Africa.

You should have seen my Uncle Sam when he said the word for that calzone type meal. He was reveling in the memory. His father was from Siculiana, so Greek influence there, as well as others.

I'm showing my mother the posts again as soon as she gets I pick her up from church.

The commercial calzones here are large, about 6 inches or more. That "tavola calda" you talked about was compared to some in a book about Herculaneum, in a bakery shop.

It's raining on and off, so I couldn't put the laundry out, but I don't have to water the garden. Now I have to wait to mow the lawn, though.

Have fun in the garden...

Later,

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
exdem
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 17
Location: United States

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave

Welcome to Amici,

Really enjoy reading your posts, reminds me so much of when I was younger. Like you my grandparents and ggrandparents are from different parts of Italy. What is most amazing is how all the different dishes that I grew up enjoying came from these different parts.

One recipe that my grandmother made only on Christmas Eve, she made it special dish for my grandfather who was Calabrese, She got this recipe from his mother. It was walnuts crushed almost paste like, with oil and garlic served with angel hair pasta.

Anyone heard of thias recipe, she would only make it on Christmas eve.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
goganga
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 3172
Location: Northern Italy

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maria wrote:
"braciola' comes from 'brace' which in Italian means grill.

Geez! I never thought about the origin of the word "braciola"... I didn't know that it comes from "brace"! Embarassed
Thanks Maria!

_________________
how I long to see the sun in a sky of perfect blue,
with the sunlight on my face, but there's nothing I can do...
.I.



Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!



Di troppe cose non so cosa farne, per me che avrei bisogno di poche immagini ma eterne. (G. Gaber)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
DaveFerro
Site Regular
Site Regular


Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 470
Location: Auburn, New York

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Thank you exdem, and hi gogang-I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the words, very close in spelling: one c, two c's.

I keep thinking that all this should be in the food section, but...

The closest we ever had is aglio olio, but not with crushed walnuts. I'll ask my mother. She sometimes says she doesn't remember and then later comes up with a complete rundown of the subject, with names, stories etc. Just needs a suggestion and a little time. I bet she would like this recipe. Usually we have aglio olio on Fridays when she is tired of fish.

You said it was from her mother-in-law, who was Calabrese. I wish we could do a comparison with the different regions to find the different dishes and the local resources. Our family in Compobasso did not have easy access to seafood, but the ones from near Bari did, so my mother learned from her mother-in-law. Also lamb dishes, which she did not have at home.

Tell about more dishes, exdem, and what about ones in Liguria, Sims?

Our Christmas always had two types of sauce (not gravy!) for the macaroni, meat and fish. Granma used to make cavatelle, which she rolled between her thumb and finger. My mother makes it sometimes, but usually now we buy some.

Then all my aunts would be in the kitchen and it was a sight to see. I taped a cookie making session a few years ago. Stayed out of the way, though.

Now we have just my Aunt Carrie and my cousin Stan, whose mother is in a nursing home. Later he goes to see her and then his sister comes to town and they go to see her together.

First soup, chicken of course, stacciatella (sp?) style. Then the macaroni, calamare, salad, maybe ham, Insalata del Morte...I mean Arange, home made pies with coffee. There were nuts to crack, roasted chestnuts being a favorite. Some wine that one of my uncles made too.

Then we had to eat in the kitchen, until we got old enough. And there were 5 girls and one boy in her family, so there husbands and wives and kids, so it was crowded.

Now it is 1:26 in the morning and you got me hungry talking about this. So, time to say goodnight and sneak downstairs.

Dave

Maria, I have a typical Sicilian holiday as told by Jerre Mangione that I will post as soon as I find it. I'd like to hear everyone's story about their hoidays. Fun.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
DaveFerro
Site Regular
Site Regular


Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 470
Location: Auburn, New York

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

exdem,

I asked my mother about the Christmas Eve dinner with walnut paste and aglio olio and she said she had that at her Aunt Anna's until she was 15 and when they had Christmas Eve at their own home. Her mother and father (and his sister, the aunt she called zizzie, for zia) were both from Compobasso Province, and they did not have the pasta like you had, so it might have been from her uncle Dominiick DeFabian (changed from Di Fabio). We do not know where his family is from, but we will check if he was Calabrese; that would explain the meal. Now I have to add another name to the profile, too.

We had meatless sauces on the Eve and meat sauces on Christmas Day.

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
exdem
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 17
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

We usually had a clam sauce with linguini, I have to laugh my family calls it gravy, read your post, many people from North Jersey call it this, my exhusband who is from south Jersey called it sauce.

For Christmas eve we had all kinds of fish, from stuffed Calamri to bacccala salad, My grandother would shop for weeks preparing for the Christmas Holiday...

We also as children had to sit at the kids table in the kitchen, I remember how I could wait to be able to sit with the adults. When I look back I was just as excited about the coming meals as I was for the presents. It was such a unique experience

Those where such wonderful memories.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DaveFerro
Site Regular
Site Regular


Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 470
Location: Auburn, New York

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi exdem,

Clam sauce was not used much around here. The fish sauce was usually tuna. My mother says baccala was a usual item.

What I meant about gravy vs sauce came from two books, one calling it gravy and I never heard anyone refer to it that way. Another book, by Gina Cascone called Life al Dente, is about growing up in New Jersey and is hilarious, especially about the food. One thing I would like to write her about is what she said about people who use a spoon to help twirl their spaghetti on their forks. She said only the Sicilians do that and I thought of my Uncle Chuck being the only one at the table doing so. And yes he was from Siculiana, Sicily like my maternal grandfather. I don't know if grnnpa used a spoon, but I found it to be more difficult to do; just a fork was good enough.

Cascone's description of eel cooking is a classic. Try to find it at your library. I think her other book, unfortunately not at our library, was called Demon Babies or something like that. Very curious about that book.

You should put your memories down on paper; they are valuable.

Maria, here is part of Jerre Mangione's description of Sundays with his family:
"We children made the most noise, each one trying to surpass the other with earsplitting shrieks. Our only concern was to steer clear of adults who might become irritated enough to cuff us. The disadvantage of playing with children who were related was that any of the mothers sitting within striking distance felt she had the prerogative of delivering stinging slaps with the back of her hand, regardless of whether the target was her own or not. Of course, if your own mother reached you, the slap was likely to be twice as stinging because she loved you more."

Oh, so that's why, hmmm?

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    AMICI OVER THE OCEAN Forum Index -> New Members - Welcome! Benvenuti! All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
   

Abuse - Report Abuse - TOS & Privacy.
Powered by forumup.it free forum, create your free forum! Created by Hyarbor & Qooqoa
Confirmed

Page generation time: 0.167